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    <p>Hi Nevel,</p>
    <p>Because the servers for havedane.net reply with NXDOMAIN for the
      name _tcp.wrong.havedane.net. This is one step above the 25...
      name, and it is what qname minimisation attempts to do.  They give
      dnssec proof too of the nonexistance of the 25... name.</p>
    <p>So, this means the servers are not protocol correct.  And they
      respond with both the (dnssec signed) presence and the (dnssec
      signed) absence of the TLSA records.  Depends on what you look at
      first on what the answer is going to be.  The NXDOMAIN for the
      _tcp name is wrong, and should be an empty nonterminal answer. 
      Likely a flaw in the software on the server.  And also for the
      signer I guess, otherwise it would not be validly dnssec signed,
      but actually it is dnssec insecure, it seems that the nsec3 for
      havedane has optout set.  This is also against the spec, there
      should not really be authoritative data under an optout span.</p>
    <p>If you turn off qname minimisation unbound first asks for the
      TLSA and it seems it works.  But really it doesn't, and does not
      fail immediately.  Maybe also for other servers, eg. once you
      asked for the _tcp name they may no longer return the TLSAs (or
      until those time out and the cache software looks in cache first
      and finds the valid NXDOMAIN first).<br>
    </p>
    <p>Best regards, Wouter<br>
    </p>
    <p>dig @2a05:1500:501:1:1c00:6cff:fe00:12d _tcp.wrong.havedane.net.
      +dnssec<br>
      ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id:
      17746<br>
      ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 8, ADDITIONAL:
      1<br>
      ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available<br>
      <br>
      ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:<br>
      ; EDNS: version: 0, flags: do; udp: 1680<br>
      ;; QUESTION SECTION:<br>
      ;_tcp.wrong.havedane.net.    IN    A<br>
      <br>
      ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:<br>
      havedane.net.        300    IN    SOA    ns091.auroradns.eu.
      admin.auroradns.eu. 2019011601 86400 7200 604800 300<br>
      havedane.net.        300    IN    RRSIG    SOA 8 2 4800
      20190620000000 20190530000000 42609 havedane.net.
      otoo7bUY2JuWE6zUCcSNTML5Vw8OQyq5ktlx0FcOEllIxYJEC47jSkOP
      DChJNkxiOL5fSKhwakb6TPaMLoksfE5X9DeWQniZzb1iZPO6ntzDeaUv
      Sonm0dUp/1wEH5pSwM3pMiI8/D2CeH0qv2hlT3ZQxCl3Y+oTGIbQ0/Op 0tI=<br>
      tchk01a6c4u00v4qferegafj8uaa0kuu.havedane.net. 300 IN NSEC3 1 1 10
      80052F2BC65F99C0 TCHK01A6C4U00V4QFEREGAFJ8UAA0KUV A AAAA RRSIG<br>
      tchk01a6c4u00v4qferegafj8uaa0kuu.havedane.net. 300 IN RRSIG NSEC3
      8 3 300 20190620000000 20190530000000 42609 havedane.net.
      meZexDBWPuLCY8cwAiFeAEhxroLz+0dgYiuxAeWdODETPVAP3+oPdABJ
      v6hTDKXLkHRlg2q8FOBPjOZkbUCnRmf203a8LauZpnFSz101PK//iswP
      1fSD/4YvyLVrdIhRUyhlOagsOO+LdGg9vRYTPNgq83ohUI1U09Tq1toV /hI=<br>
      kfm2301lp75trvmmcmnjomhet1anrkcc.havedane.net. 300 IN NSEC3 1 1 10
      80052F2BC65F99C0 KFM2301LP75TRVMMCMNJOMHET1ANRKCE<br>
      kfm2301lp75trvmmcmnjomhet1anrkcc.havedane.net. 300 IN RRSIG NSEC3
      8 3 300 20190620000000 20190530000000 42609 havedane.net.
      pkNh8bMF5PrVpDkz3vZwme+JEwhknNHS20sslBYAzVO+y0pYqdrGGUOb
      TR8ievdPhSd94CchOu4Zg4coRKdPqM3E1j50E20qsrlgpd13LQLJ3h+5
      Bwc6Xr1tYrzR2tnx6h2V4emAYVSLPskUWhTRYY0RLJxL0kZqIS+mYD9y UIY=<br>
      d75017d9r7ogr9sj2sll546mdo1miven.havedane.net. 300 IN NSEC3 1 1 10
      80052F2BC65F99C0 D75017D9R7OGR9SJ2SLL546MDO1MIVEP<br>
      d75017d9r7ogr9sj2sll546mdo1miven.havedane.net. 300 IN RRSIG NSEC3
      8 3 300 20190620000000 20190530000000 42609 havedane.net.
      V5tLLyA7ZMpFBCkSNne+Jzbmob1WCnRufrCJKy7ZudhN7QI7jWivkeGn
      AaNRCHvIOyxUV9sY1oh4IuK00uhgqbhF8Elq97M05jaoGP5ItpQW0ic0
      32HhSZ/OBy3BUJPhzDoAbF8DJDybeRXoL4SCDgMTYd/vgS1Zj5xmj5qu D6I=<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/06/2019 06:13, Nevel Gandish via
      Unbound-users wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALQ-LaDSp=Ai0bQ4ipPaxC7qrV0-SmXJ8Zj7GMub0ByYTkEicg@mail.gmail.com">
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                          <div>Hello,<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <div>I'm trying to test my mail server with <a
                              href="https://havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">https://havedane.net</a>
                            but it will send mails to the subdomain with
                            invalid DANE entry.<br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Reason seems, that my local unbound
                            (1.9.0) installation gives NXDOMAIN when
                            looking up _25._<a
                              href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>:<br>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                            ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3-P4-Debian
                            <<>> _25._<a
                              href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>
                            TLSA<br>
                            ;; global options: +cmd<br>
                            ;; Got answer:<br>
                            ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY,
                            status: NXDOMAIN, id: 29911<br>
                            ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0,
                            AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1<br>
                            <br>
                            ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:<br>
                            ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096<br>
                            ;; QUESTION SECTION:<br>
                            ;_25._<a
                              href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>.  
                            IN      TLSA<br>
                            <br>
                            ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:<br>
                            <a href="http://havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">havedane.net</a>.          
                            103     IN      SOA     <a
                              href="http://ns091.auroradns.eu"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">ns091.auroradns.eu</a>.
                            <a href="http://admin.auroradns.eu"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">admin.auroradns.eu</a>.
                            2019011601 86400 7200 604800 300<br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            Unbound log:<br>
                            Jun 11 20:53:27 unbound[8830:0] info: reply
                            from <<a href="http://havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">havedane.net</a>.>
                            185.103.243.231#53<br>
                            Jun 11 20:53:27 unbound[8830:0] info: query
                            response was NXDOMAIN ANSWER<br>
                            Jun 11 20:53:27 unbound[8830:0] info:
                            127.0.0.1 _25._<a
                              href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>.
                            A IN NXDOMAIN 0.451754 0 116<br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <div>But this TLSA RR exists and it's found
                            when using any other NS like here (or with @<a
                              href="http://46.182.19.48"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">46.182.19.48</a> or
                            @<a href="http://9.9.9.9"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">9.9.9.9</a> or
                            whatever):<br>
                            <br>
                            ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3-P4-Debian
                            <<>> _25._<a
                              href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>
                            TLSA @<a href="http://8.8.8.8"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">8.8.8.8</a><br>
                            ;; global options: +cmd<br>
                            ;; Got answer:<br>
                            ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY,
                            status: NOERROR, id: 22860<br>
                            ;; flags: qr rd ra ad; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2,
                            AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1<br>
                            <br>
                            ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:<br>
                            ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512<br>
                            ;; QUESTION SECTION:<br>
                            ;_25._<a
                              href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>.  
                            IN      TLSA<br>
                            <br>
                            ;; ANSWER SECTION:<br>
                            _25._<a href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>.
                            3599 IN    TLSA    2 1 1
                            27B694B51D1FEF8885372ACFB39193759722B736B0426864DC1C79D0
                            651FEF72<br>
                            _25._<a href="http://tcp.wrong.havedane.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">tcp.wrong.havedane.net</a>.
                            3599 IN    TLSA    3 1 1
                            553ACF88F9EE18CCAAE635CA540F32CB84ACA77C47916682BCB542D5
                            1DAA871E<br>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                            I don't know what to look for in my
                            installation or configuration. What results
                            do you get when running that request?<br>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          Bye,<br>
                        </div>
                        Nevel<br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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